The Ultimate DreamMS Evan Thread of Justice

Patchouli

Member
Jul 8, 2021
12
15
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This is a thread meant to not only give my personal review and address issues with Evan, but to also include bugs, (new) ideas and essentially open up a discussion with the community! [QoL, skill change]

To preface, I have been a member of DreamMS since launch! I've played a bunch of classes personally, and my partner has played even more classes! Together, we have a decent idea as to how classes compare to one another, their growth at certain milestones, and how they perform overall. As well, we have the insight and feedback from other members of the community who are not only playing as an Evan themselves, but also their extensive knowledge on other jobs and parts of the server. Together, we have concluded that there are some issues with Evan that need to be addressed.

With Evan being the first bossing mage class introduced to GMS, they were given a main single target skill (Illusion) and a couple of mobbing skills (Flame Wheel, Blaze), with an area of effect (Dark Fog) to round it out. These attacking skills are nice in general because you can use them all in specific situations, such as using Illusion for single targets, Flame Wheel for horizontal pulling and cleaving, and Blaze for a stronger cleave akin to Chain Lightning. However, there are some notable issues with these skills.

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- The dragon's clone attacks a monster 4 times.
  • The speed of the skill feels good! However, I think that since it's not meant to be this fast normally, it causes the skill to be extra loud. I find myself needing to mute the in-game sounds because of how loud it is (or at the very least, turn it down…).
  • The damage from Illusion does not feel good. I understand the struggle that mages have leveling up because their damage increases based on levels, but I am finding myself using Illusion less and less. Prior to level 240, using Blaze as your single target skill is arguably better than using Illusion. Yet, even with the Illusion - Reinforce skillbook, the margin of damage between Blaze and Illusion on a single target is not even the difference of 200k damage per second, with Illusion being slightly stronger. This was performed in dojo, where all the variables were the same aside from the skill used. As the clear single target skill, it should be outpacing its cleaving skills when there is one target by a larger margin.
  • With no mob being weak to the dark element, Evans can have a disadvantage at certain bosses and mobs compared to others who may have the opportunity to outpace them due to elemental weaknesses. Here I propose a couple of solutions to the Illusion problem:
    • Increasing Illusion's base damage a lot as a whole could balance out others who may have an elemental advantage on certain mobs, making them do overall better damage.
    • Increasing Illusion's base damage a little bit and add notable dark weaknesses to mobs and bosses that matter.
  • Despite wands having the additional dark element, there isn't really a need to wear a wand if an Elemental Staff 5 Blaze single target does roughly the same amount of damage as Illusion (and even more prior to level 240!). There's no incentive to using wands because Illusion is so weak.
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- Generates a wheel of flames that attacks up to 6 monsters at once.
  • The horizontal range for the skill is very nice! However, I feel as though the vertical range could be slightly increased so they can cleave a bit better at bosses like Horntail and Zakum. This is mentioned because while the skill can hit six targets at both bosses, it can be finicky and not hit all the parts at times due to its lack of vertical range. I am unsure if the vision was for Evans to be cleavers more than single targeters, but if they were meant to be cleavers, I think making them be able to cleave better will not only increase their damage, it'll be satisfying and help keep the Evans happy! Especially for early training.
  • As a crit mage class, the more lines there are, the better their overall damage is as it gives more chance for crits to occur. I recommend at least two lines for this skill, even if it means lowering the basic attack for this skill by a little bit.
  • Sometimes, when using this skill (and frankly, other skills like Earthquake, etc.) causes mobs to get hit and aggro'd, but they don't walk towards you; they just run in place. I've noticed this at Shaolin 5-6, and I've noticed it at HoH.
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- Attacks one monster with a powerful flame. Monsters near the target take reduced damage.

  • While it's stronger than Flame Wheel, there is really no reason to use Blaze other than as a single target skill. This is because the range of how Blaze attaches to other mobs/pieces of bosses, and the range in order to use the skill itself. This is a noticeably closer Chain Lightning, and I believe the attachments themselves aren't like Chain Lightning either. I understand that they are different skills entirely, but if it is meant to behave similarly, and if this is meant to be a cleaving skill for an Evan to use, it should be a viable option. For example, in Horntail, it at most hits four parts when the skill should hit six at most, and Flame Wheel is capable of hitting six parts when you stand on the right.
  • Possibility of removing the effect where the damage on the enemies it connects to lessens the damage.
  • As a crit mage class, the more lines there are, the better their overall damage is as it gives more chance for crits to occur. I recommend at least two lines for this skill, even if it means lowering the basic attack by a little bit.
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- Gathers all the dark elements in the area to create a dark, chilly fog that attacks up to 15 enemies. Temporarily imbues all attacks with the dark element. CD: 7 seconds.

  • I believe this skill was sped up to feel better, and it does! Thank you.
  • The range on this skill is very different compared to the other mage AOEs. I don't know how possible it is, but I feel like the skill only hitting right next to you and right above you, with a shorter horizontal distance (and will never hit below where you're standing) is a bit limited if it's meant to feel similar to Impaling Rays, both with the big damage and the same cooldown. I tend to only use Dark Fog to add my dark element, and I don't use it to increase my DPS.
    • Is it possible to increase where it hits?
  • As a crit class, the more lines there are, the better their overall damage is as it gives more chance for crits to occur. With a cool down to this skill and the fact that enemies are damages before the animation is finished casting, it'd be pretty cool to not only increase Dark Fog to be used for more than just reapplying dark element, it'd also be aesthetically awesome! Like a second hit when the beams that look sort of like Genesis come down or something.
  • Something really neat that I thought of, but unsure of its execution, is that once you obtain the dark element for yourself, the skills you use afterwards are also a similar color to Dark Fog's lightning beams. Doing this is not only crazy cool, it adds a visual indicator for the Evan that all of their skills are now covered in darkness.
    • Here are some (scuffed) ideas of how that could potentially look! Love the dark fire haha. Ignore my recoloring mistakes please.
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Evan also came out with some new buffs (self and party) that are unique and noteworthy. They have Soul Stone, Blessing of the Onyx, Magic Resistance, Magic Shield, and Recovery Aura. There are some things I jotted down for the majority of these buffs:

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- Casts a buff that holds souls. A character whose soul is being held can be resurrected immediately if killed. This buff is randomly cast on 1 or 2 party members. CD: 10 minutes.
  • The intended mechanic is to randomly pick yourself and one to two people in your party to obtain the Soul Stone buff, where within the duration, if any of you with the buff die, you can be resurrected without using a Wheel of Destiny. It resurrects you if you accept the Soul Stone, but it eliminates all of your buffs in doing so. Personally, since you can't pick who the Soul Stone goes to if you're around your party, I think it should resurrect you with buffs still in tact. Needing to rebuff and even re-echo is an annoying part of this skill to the point that, in most situations, it'd be the same as using a wheel. Since it should be somewhat on par to Resurrection, but not as good due to the fact it's random, buffs should stay intact. This is one of the only party buffs that are unique and notable to an Evan, and it could give the option to sometimes go on raids without needing a bishop (assuming you really need their Resurrection).
  • Adding an option to either use the Soul Stone or a Wheel of Destiny could be a great addition to this skill, with the Soul Stone being the first window. This allows the user a choice between using a wheel or using the Soul Stone, and even gives a better indicator of when Soul Stone has been used by a party member. This is also helpful because Soul Stone might be used on somebody who died and doesn't want to give consent to use the Soul Stone (i.e, wanting to wheel over being resurrected to avoid being high up in the seduce rotation).
  • Changing the visuals of the window itself could also be a good indicator of when somebody dies with the buff and they don't notice it, either adding the Soul Stone icon to the window, changing the color of the window to cream/orange to match the color of the buff, or anything really.
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- Temporarily boost your defenses and magic attack. Grants a chance to resist knock-back effects. CD: 150 seconds.
  • I appreciate not only the lack of backswing when casting, but also the uptime and the stance addition! Thank you!
  • While the uptime for this skill is more than its mage counterparts and their Infinity, I still think it's worth considering to increase the magic attack that it gives so that Evans can be less inclined to use Ssiws Cheese in raids in order to keep up.
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- Creates a barrier around all party members that absorbs a fixed amount of damage for 50 seconds. CD: 120 seconds.
  • Seeing as though the backswing of this skill is much more noticeable compared to the other skills, I find myself only casting this if the main boss I'm attacking has cancel magic attack. I think absorbing 30% damage is a good skill, I just wish it was more realistic to cast it on downtime.
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- Creates an aura around you for 30 seconds. This aura continuously recovers the MP of all party members affected by it. CD: 1 minute.
  • Recovering a lot of mana is pretty cool, and I see its greatest strength being used during empress when they 1/1 the Bishops. However, other than that niche situation, I have the skill itself unbinded because I don't like how it increases my own mana above the threshold for Dragon Fury. Especially after obtaining Dragon Link, I think this skill is pretty much useless everywhere else. An idea to improve its usability is to make it so that it cannot increase (your own) mana above 90%, or if possible, to never increase above whatever level your Dragon Fury is.

On top of all of these, there are some bugs that I and the community have noticed, and I decided it was a good idea to place them here at the end of the thread just to contain everything in one area. Alternate suggestions have also been put here from the community:


In conclusion, Evans are capable of cleaving decently well in specific situations, but their whole kit needs a rework. We have members of the community complaining about how weak it is, as well as making horrendous comments about the class as a whole. We should not be considered a worse version of Blaze Wizard, and we definitely should be keeping up with the big boys while providing some unique and decent buffs that could make us a class worth taking.

Thanks for reading! Feel free to let me know if I missed anything, and if you have any of your ideas to make this class better! In my opinion, MapleStory should be fun, and you should have fun playing the class. It currently isn’t that fun to play Evan, and I am not the only one to think so (https://discord.com/channels/920833230704361483/1019903759075266610/1188113381006262342).

Special thanks to @Dillz and @Usko for helping me create this thread!
 
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ShrimpManiac

Member
Aug 30, 2021
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53
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Very nice overview! There are many points that I can agree yet have not been brought up until now. I feel though that being too immersed into the perspective of Evan, you may have failed to consider interclass balance. I will try to elaborate this by pointing out a few things in your analysis and adding my own observations.


Illusion

The speed of the skill feels good! However, I think that since it's not meant to be this fast normally, it causes the skill to be extra loud. I find myself needing to mute the in-game sounds because of how loud it is (or at the very least, turn it down…).
1. I can't agree more :c I think it would be best to lower the inherent volume of illusion's sound file.

2. Illusion has the advantage of having longer range than blaze. For example, illusion reaches zakum comfortably from the left wall while you have to position yourself more forward with blaze. I'm not saying however that this range makes up for the lack of dominance in single target damage. I'm just pointing out a perk of illusion that wasn't mentioned in your post.

3. Another advantage is that illusion procs only if there is an attackable target.
  • On the one hand, this is a small advantage in terms of minimizing dps loss because your skill cast is never wasted. While other classes waste a fraction of a second when hitting HT head A that bobs down, toad b2 that has invincible frame, etc., Evan stops attacking when the target disappears and starts attacking it immediately as it reappears.
  • On the other hand, this is a QoL bonus for when you are not attentive to the game screen and relying on sound cues. (e.g. watching youtube while in dailies) You know something's gone wrong when you stop hearing the illusion sound.
4. Indeed, dark 'element' as of now is not really an element since no mobs are strong or weak against it. It's more like 'neutral' element that comes with +25% dmg (from wand). If the complaint is that this is boring, I 100% agree. Adding a bit of strengths and weaknesses can make dark element much more interesting. However, what you say here is much more controversial:

Evans can have a disadvantage at certain bosses and mobs compared to others who may have the opportunity to outpace them due to elemental weaknesses.
You are assuming here that the lack of dark weak mobs lead to an overall disadvantage against other classes. This, however, is an immensely difficult point to prove and requires a detailed analysis of the following questions:
  • In what situations are some classes in a better/worse position due to elemental affinity?
  • In such situations, how greatly do these bonuses/penalties impact their relative strength against other classes?
  • How significant is each situation (boss) in the meta in terms of its rewards? (exp / drops)
  • How do these situational advantages/disadvantages impact the overall class balance?
I do not attempt to answer these myself. Instead, I simply point out that there are many classes that do not have elemental affinity (physical classes). If your claim is true, then you are committed to the claim that such classes are also disfavored.

To be clear, I don't disagree that dark strong/weak mobs should be added. Considering the fact that the most meta-significant bosses (empress, magnus) are elementally neutral, I don't think adding a few here and there for the other bosses will impact the class balance in a worrying way, as long as it is done carefully. What I disagree is that they should be added because the absence disfavors Evan. Likewise, on the following point:

Here I propose a couple of solutions to the Illusion problem:
  • Increasing Illusion's base damage a lot as a whole could balance out others who may have an elemental advantage on certain mobs, making them do overall better damage.
  • Increasing Illusion's base damage a little bit and add notable dark weaknesses to mobs and bosses that matter.
I disagree to increasing Illusion's base damage because the current lack of dark weak mobs disfavor Evan. The elemental bonus enjoyed by other classes are mostly situational. A generic boost of skill damage will be clearly biased in favor of Evan. If your reason for increasing the base damage concerns the previous point on the comparison against blaze, then I don't necessarily disagree.


Flame Wheel

The horizontal range for the skill is very nice! However, I feel as though the vertical range could be slightly increased so they can cleave a bit better at bosses like Horntail and Zakum. This is mentioned because while the skill can hit six targets at both bosses, it can be finicky and not hit all the parts at times due to its lack of vertical range. I am unsure if the vision was for Evans to be cleavers more than single targeters, but if they were meant to be cleavers, I think making them be able to cleave better will not only increase their damage, it'll be satisfying and help keep the Evans happy! Especially for early training.
1. Not that I necessarily disagree, but I just wanna make a few cautionary points:
- Flame wheel has insane horizontal range that probably makes up for the lack of vertical range. This is clearly very useful against normal mobs, but I can also see its utility in bosses:
  • In HT, not many classes can reach Head A and LH from the right side, and if they do, they often need to position themselves forward, which requires stance. Evan can do this at ease while standing in a position where they can afford be knocked back once without falling.
  • In PB, although I have not run with Evan yet, I have no doubt Evan will be able to hit two statues at once, which is huge advantage.
  • I cannot say much about Empress since I have never run it, but I can see how Evan will be able to constantly cleave 6 mobs from a safe distance.
- The current vertical range is not really too short. In zakum, you can reliably hit 6 arms from the second highest platform on the right. In HT, you can reliably hit 6 arms from the right platform.

As a crit mage class, the more lines there are, the better their overall damage is as it gives more chance for crits to occur. I recommend at least two lines for this skill, even if it means lowering the basic attack for this skill by a little bit.
2. This point is misguided. It is true that crit damage favors multiple lines of damage for physical classes, but this is not true for mages. The explanation comes from the difference in how crit is applied to physical / magic damage.
  • For physical damage, crit is additive to the skill base damage. Take NL's triple throw for example, which has three lines and 225% base damage. NL has 200% (100% in calculation) passive crit damage and get 40% (140% in calculation) further crit damage from SE. To make things simple, let's assume that every attack crits. Then the damage from a single cast of triple throw is: (225% + 100% + 140%) x 3 = 1395%. Now imagine an alternative skill Single Throw, which throws just one star with 675% (= 225% x 3) base damage. Then crit will boost the final damage to only 915%, (675% + 100% + 140%) which is far weaker than triple throw. Six-Hundred-Seventy-Five Throw will be (1% + 100% + 140%) x 675 = 162,675%!
  • Now, crit damage works multiplicatively for magic damage. For mages, SE boost their damage by an honest amount of 15% x 40% = 6% regardless of how many lines of damage each skill cast fires. For Evan who has 30% passive crit chance and 50% crit damage, SE boosts damage from 115% (0.3 x 150% + 0.7 x 100%) to 140.5% (0.45 x 190% + 0.55 x 100%). Again, this is the same for single line or multiple lines.
So splitting up the damage into more lines will neither increase nor decrease the damage of the skill. Same goes for blaze and dark fog.


Blaze

While it's stronger than Flame Wheel, there is really no reason to use Blaze other than as a single target skill. This is because the range of how Blaze attaches to other mobs/pieces of bosses, and the range in order to use the skill itself. This is a noticeably closer Chain Lightning, and I believe the attachments themselves aren't like Chain Lightning either. I understand that they are different skills entirely, but if it is meant to behave similarly, and if this is meant to be a cleaving skill for an Evan to use, it should be a viable option. For example, in Horntail, it at most hits four parts when the skill should hit six at most, and Flame Wheel is capable of hitting six parts when you stand on the right.
1. I agree that this skill is very situational as a cleave skill, but I won't say that "there is really no reason to use [it] other than as a single target skill." Blaze is clearly stronger than either illusion or flame wheel when hitting 2~3 mobs, which is entirely plausible. (i.e. half-dead zakum and horntail)

Assume that 1 Blaze = 1 Illusion = 1.5 Flame Wheel for single target.
  • 2 target:
    • Flame wheel = (100%) x 2 = 200%
    • Blaze = (1.5 x 100%) x (1 + 0.7) = 255%
    • Illusion = (1.5 x 100%) = 150%
  • 3 target:
    • Flame wheel = (100%) x 3 = 300%
    • Blaze = (1.5 x 100%) x (1 + 0.7 + 0.7^2) = 328.5%
    • Illusion = (1.5 x 100%) = 150%
Possibility of removing the effect where the damage on the enemies it connects to lessens the damage.
2. This is simply unreasonable. Since the base damage of blaze is 50% higher than flame wheel, it will powercreep Evan when hitting 6 targets. (HoH and Wrk grinding, Empress)


Dark Fog

Something really neat that I thought of, but unsure of its execution, is that once you obtain the dark element for yourself, the skills you use afterwards are also a similar color to Dark Fog's lightning beams. Doing this is not only crazy cool, it adds a visual indicator for the Evan that all of their skills are now covered in darkness.
  • Here are some (scuffed) ideas of how that could potentially look! Love the dark fire haha. Ignore my recoloring mistakes please.
I am absolutely in love with this idea :D Thank you for providing the amazing example images!


Soul Stone

  • Changing the visuals of the window itself could also be a good indicator of when somebody dies with the buff and they don't notice it, either adding the Soul Stone icon to the window, changing the color of the window to cream/orange to match the color of the buff, or anything really.
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Another wonderful idea!


Blessing of the Onyx

While the uptime for this skill is more than its mage counterparts and their Infinity, I still think it's worth considering to increase the magic attack that it gives so that Evans can be less inclined to use Ssiws Cheese in raids in order to keep up.
I think the 80% uptime is already such an immense advantage that asking for more mat is just too much. Also, Subani's cauldron is a much more efficient buff potion for Evan. I am pretty confident that they introduced it to CWK and LPQ with this specific purpose.
 
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Patchouli

Member
Jul 8, 2021
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Thank you so much for the reply, @ShrimpManiac! Very insightful and knowledgeable. Admittedly, I am not really a numbers girl, so it was awesome to be able to see the clear explanations you gave in some of my suggestions. I also appreciate you liking some of my ideas! While I do not know the extent to how easy it is to incorporate, say, an entire color change to the skills to match Dark Fog's beautiful, deep purple, it really is a cool idea to think about nonetheless.

For the dark weakness, I can see what you mean by inferring that everybody else who has no element has a weakness by simply not having mobs be weak to their... say, slashing and whatnot. You're right, I didn't think about that, so I'm grateful you pointed it out. In that sense, I was simply just thinking about mage vs mage, where they all have an element they can benefit from.

Knowing that critical multipliers are different between magic and physical is very interesting as well, considering the fact that I believe it's more-or-less common knowledge that for physical attackers, adding lines can increase their damage. I assumed it was the same way for mages! I'm also biased towards multiple lines because after playing Dual Bladers and Buccaneers and such, I can't help but feel super cool dealing multiple lines haha. Like an optical illusion that I'm doing more damage than I actually am, but I digress. Also, 675-Throw sounds like the newest meta that needs to be incorporated ASAP! (jk)

I know that I mentioned a lot of stuff, but honestly Illusion is the main problem that I've heard from most people. There just needs to be a change somewhere, somehow, in order for it to feel like it's worth using. I tried to avoid mentioning it in the original post, but an Evan with at least 700 more magic than a Bishop and still doing over 100m+ less damage than them in a boss raid feels discouraging, especially considering the utility output as well. I don't want the class to become dead (as people are also mentioning switching their gear back to their primary mages) because I absolutely love this class. That being said, do you have any suggestions yourself on how to fix it? I'd love to hear any and all ideas!
 
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Capu

Staff member
Game Master
WZ Editor
Apr 28, 2022
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Great writeup!

I'd like first provide some of the team's perspective when we decided on Evan's skill balancing, then address some of your points.

__________________________________________

Firstly, Evan was incredibly bad in v92. Most of the buffs and skills had super long delays - if you played during our Tespia phase, you'll know! One of the first decisions we made was to reduce the skill delays to make the class feel playable.

Can you imagine Illusion having 3x of its current delay?

Can you imagine Illusion having 3x of its current delay?
With that out of the way, we now had to decide where to balance Evan. These were the key ideas we wanted to focus on:

Different from other mages: We didn't want to slap on the usual mage toolkit of Infinity and spammable FMA, which we already did with Blaze Wizard. Dark Fog was given a different purpose. Blessing of the Onyx was given a longer uptime with less TMA boost - and as @ShrimpManiac correctly stated, we made Subani's Mystic Cauldron more available to encourage Evans to use this as their main bossing potion.

Middling and not overpowering: Balancing doesn't just mean giving skills arbitrary damage numbers relative to other mages or other classes overall. We also have to consider many factors, such as party utility, reliance on buffs, difficulty of play, difficulty of leveling up, and so on. It's impossible to achieve true balance that satisfies everyone. The approach we went with was to build on Evan's existing amazing toolkit - an arsenal of party buffs, good single-target (ST) and cleave skills, and make it an all-rounder class that doesn't completely overpower the other Magicians.

We initally decided that, in terms of damage, Evan should rank this way:
(edit: It's worth noting that these values are with full Cheese, SE and Thorns)

ST: Bishop > Evan > Archmages/BW
Cleave: Archmages/BW > Evan > Bishop

Skill damage % numbers were therefore decided based on the above relative ranking. Thanks to @Arugula for the DPM chart and calculation sheet!

We already decided that Illusion was to be the main ST skill. We also decided to centre Evan around the newly introduced Dark element and let it use a wand instead. Blaze and Flame Wheel were balanced to make them optimal for different number of targets - some people have already correctly calculated that Blaze is better at 2-3 mobs, Flame Wheel is better at 4-6.

__________________________________________

Now to address your points:

The damage from Illusion does not feel good. I understand the struggle that mages have leveling up because their damage increases based on levels, but I am finding myself using Illusion less and less. Prior to level 240, using Blaze as your single target skill is arguably better than using Illusion. Yet, even with the Illusion - Reinforce skillbook, the margin of damage between Blaze and Illusion on a single target is not even the difference of 200k damage per second, with Illusion being slightly stronger. This was performed in dojo, where all the variables were the same aside from the skill used. As the clear single target skill, it should be outpacing its cleaving skills when there is one target by a larger margin.
This is a valid concern, and something we overlooked because the numbers were decided first, then implemented backwards on Lv210+ reinforce skills. We'll look to balance this out soon. Thanks for your feedback!

Before Level 225, here are the damage per second (DPS) numbers on a single target:
Illusion = 100% * 4 / 0.54 = 740.74%
Blaze = 550% / 0.75 = 733.33%

The horizontal range for the skill is very nice! However, I feel as though the vertical range could be slightly increased so they can cleave a bit better at bosses like Horntail and Zakum. This is mentioned because while the skill can hit six targets at both bosses, it can be finicky and not hit all the parts at times due to its lack of vertical range. I am unsure if the vision was for Evans to be cleavers more than single targeters, but if they were meant to be cleavers, I think making them be able to cleave better will not only increase their damage, it'll be satisfying and help keep the Evans happy! Especially for early training.
The horizontal range of Flame Wheel is one of the best in the game, and we currently have no plans to make the vertical range even better.

  • While it's stronger than Flame Wheel, there is really no reason to use Blaze other than as a single target skill. This is because the range of how Blaze attaches to other mobs/pieces of bosses, and the range in order to use the skill itself. This is a noticeably closer Chain Lightning, and I believe the attachments themselves aren't like Chain Lightning either. I understand that they are different skills entirely, but if it is meant to behave similarly, and if this is meant to be a cleaving skill for an Evan to use, it should be a viable option. For example, in Horntail, it at most hits four parts when the skill should hit six at most, and Flame Wheel is capable of hitting six parts when you stand on the right.
  • Possibility of removing the effect where the damage on the enemies it connects to lessens the damage.
  • As a crit mage class, the more lines there are, the better their overall damage is as it gives more chance for crits to occur. I recommend at least two lines for this skill, even if it means lowering the basic attack by a little bit.
Blaze does bounce in the same manner as Chain Lightning, and there are some niches to that. (video stolen from BishPlease)

As stated earlier, the skill was intended to be used on 2-3 mobs and the damage was calculated around the 70% bounce damage factor, so we won't be removing the damage penalty.

The range on this skill is very different compared to the other mage AOEs. I don't know how possible it is, but I feel like the skill only hitting right next to you and right above you, with a shorter horizontal distance (and will never hit below where you're standing) is a bit limited if it's meant to feel similar to Impaling Rays, both with the big damage and the same cooldown. I tend to only use Dark Fog to add my dark element, and I don't use it to increase my DPS.
  • Is it possible to increase where it hits?
The hitbox of Dark Fog actually has the exact same size as the other mages' FMA, it's just that the base of the hitbox for Dark Fog is level with the character instead of below it. We'll retain this property - see earlier point on not making Evans a copy of other mages.

Something really neat that I thought of, but unsure of its execution, is that once you obtain the dark element for yourself, the skills you use afterwards are also a similar color to Dark Fog's lightning beams. Doing this is not only crazy cool, it adds a visual indicator for the Evan that all of their skills are now covered in darkness.
  • Here are some (scuffed) ideas of how that could potentially look! Love the dark fire haha. Ignore my recoloring mistakes please.
Changing animation frames generally takes a lot of work - recolouring even more so. Not ruling this suggestion out, but unfortunately it's a low priority one. Great recolouring work by the way!

(Soul Stone, Magic Shield, Recovery Aura)
Great suggestions! We'll definitely consider these points.
 
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ShrimpManiac

Member
Aug 30, 2021
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I was writing my reply to @Patchouli but @Capu answered most of the questions before I finished writing! Good thing because mine was all just conjectures anyways...My Evan is only lvl 212 and I am not in a fit position to address the concerns about illusion without having unlocked all narin skills and experiencing the higher level contents.

Well let me write it out anyways because I think there are still some points worth further clarifying and more questions to be asked.
I tried to avoid mentioning it in the original post, but an Evan with at least 700 more magic than a Bishop and still doing over 100m+ less damage than them in a boss raid feels discouraging
I'm not sure how big this single-target gap is, but I can't help but ask this question: isn't Evan a cleave specialist like archmages? It is already accepted fact that archmages display highest dps when they are able to hit 6 mobs, but do terribly in single-target scenarios.

So the question would be, how bad is the Evan-Bishop gap compared to Archmage-Bishop gap? If Illusion is too weak even compared to archmages, then yes I may be able to relate to the despair of high level players. If Evan is only moderately weaker (idk, 10% maybe?), however, then I would find that to be quite acceptable considering the variety of utilities available to Evan. (magic res pt buff, psuedo-ress, 80% stance, pt avoid buff, etc.)

I suppose this perspective matches with what Capu and his team was envisioning:
We initally decided that, in terms of damage, Evan should rank this way:

ST: Bishop > Evan > Archmages/BW
Cleave: Archmages/BW > Evan > Bishop
And possibly there may be some issues in how the actual numbers don't line up with the plan. I'm glad they are onto fixing it!


Before Level 225, here are the damage per second (DPS) numbers on a single target:
Illusion = 100% * 4 / 0.54 = 740.74%
Blaze = 550% / 0.75 = 733.33%
And if this is true, then there is something peculiar I notice. Since narin skills boost illusion by only 25% while boosting blaze and flame wheel by 50%, illusion will surely be powercreeped by blaze and this explains the complains raised about illusion's low dps. Is this what is happening?

Also I was curious about how narin skills are calculated: are 25% and 50% flat multiplicative bonus? So if flame wheel dealt 1m per line without the skill, would it deal 1.5m with it?
 
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Capu

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And if this is true, then there is something peculiar I notice. Since narin skills boost illusion by only 25% while boosting blaze and flame wheel by 50%, illusion will surely be powercreeped by blaze and this explains the complains raised about illusion's low dps. Is this what is happening?

Also I was curious about how narin skills are calculated: are 25% and 50% flat multiplicative bonus? So if flame wheel dealt 1m per line without the skill, would it deal 1.5m with it?
All reinforce skills are an additive +% to the skill damage %. So Blaze would be doing 550% + 50% = 600% and Flame Wheel would be doing 370% + 50% = 420%.
 

ShrimpManiac

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Aug 30, 2021
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All reinforce skills are an additive +% to the skill damage %. So Blaze would be doing 550% + 50% = 600% and Flame Wheel would be doing 370% + 50% = 420%.
Oh ok I see. I was confused because base damage for mage skills aren't displayed in percentage.

Then illusion boost will naturally be far greater (100> 125) than the others!
 

Patchouli

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Jul 8, 2021
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Thank you for the replies, @ShrimpManiac and @Capu. I see the vision in using Subani's Mystic Cauldron now, that's a nice touch in being a bit different than the other mages! Is it possible to gain from CWKPQ and such as well?

In order to invite discussion, and to hopefully to show another point of view, here are some more opinionated insights! Feel free to mention if I missed anything, or comment with your own opinions!

The approach we went with was to build on Evan's existing amazing toolkit - an arsenal of party buffs, good single-target (ST) and cleave skills, and make it an all-rounder class that doesn't completely overpower the other Magicians.
A question I have is how far of the gap is the intended ST damage going to be between Evan and Bishop? In the claim that they are to be balanced due to utility and party buffs, I'd argue that Bishops have a better kit with Heaven's Door, Holy Shield, Holy Symbol, Genesis AOE with no cooldown, and Resurrection. Evans get Soul Stone, Onyx Shroud, Magic Resistance, and sometimes Magic Shield. They don't cleave, but with bosses like Magnus and Empress, you don't really need to cleave as you're doing the most (true) damage to the boss themselves as a mage, and you have your cleaving buddies to aid you in your raid during V2 in Empress. As an Evan, if you aren't cleaving as well as your buddies, nor doing good enough damage with your single target, I don't think it's worth considering taking them in parties over others; even if they do provide party buffs, since most other classes have stance or increased avoidability anyway that it doesn't really matter too much to use Onyx Shroud. Magic Resistance is nice, but we've been doing these bosses and raids without it for so long that the difference is marginal. Lastly, Soul Stone is just a weaker version of Resurrection (at least, it is at the moment).

After talking with some more members of the community, I have some other opinions I'd like to mention!

Personally, I chose to play a Bishop for its utility aspect: Resurrection, Holy Shield, Holy Symbol, good farm, etc. are the main reasons. Others probably feel similarly, I'd reckon. I think Evan should be a pick to deal damage, just as you would for other mages (while mages also have the benefit of being good farmers). Evans, while having some cool buffs, aren't exactly "necessary" buffs that people seek out for. We see people looking for Sharp Eyes, Speed Infusion, Holy Symbol, even Hyper Body and Thorns! I don't think Evans have anything nearly as useful to bring to the table, even if they're unique and are, in a sense, useful. Evans are also a Sharp Eyes reliant class who, with SE, still do less damage than I think they should be doing.

I do get the desire to make them well-balanced all around, but I also don't want them to be completely blown out of the water by their mage companions, you know? It feels discouraging to play the class at this point in time. And while I admit I'm not a good game balancer, nor am I perfect, I just want the best for Evan!
 
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domranmersum

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Jul 9, 2022
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I don't play Evan.

Illusion:
Discussion seems to focus on whether Illusion should be buffed or not. Currently Evan ST is between Bishop and F/P. Do I think Evan should have better ST than Bishop? I am unsure. I think complaints about this skill have been overblown, but I wouldn't mind a slight boost pre-lv240 to make it substantially better than Blaze.
  1. Change basic attack pre-lv240 from 100 to 110. Makes it 11% better than Blaze pre lv-225 and 1.75% better than Blaze at lv225-240.
  2. Change Reinforce to only +15 basic attack.
Whether Illusion's post-lv240 basic attack should be increased can be discussed further. I'm currently neutral about this.

Flame Wheel:
Shrimp talked about it being able to hit 6 targets in NCHT and Zak so not too true about the vertical range changes. Again, I don't play Evan so I know nothing about the vertical range. More lines is unnecessary to me.

Blaze:
Currently Evan's best skill for 2-3 target DPS. Don't really agree with the changes. No point increasing the attachment range if it's only supposed to be attacking 2-3 targets. Flame Wheel should be used if it's more than 3.

Dark Fog:
I have no issues with the changes, but I'm confused whether you want Evans to weave this skill in every 7 seconds to maximise DPS. Might feel quite clunky due to its longer animation delay.

Soul Stone:
I have no qualms with the suggestions given.

Blessing:
Don't really get increasing its MA boost. Shouldn't Evans be using Subanis anyway? I found it cool how they're pretty much the only job that uses them.

Magic Shield:
I have no qualms with the suggestions given.

Recovery Aura:
If we make it so that it only increases MP to 90%, that would mean Evans don't have to bother managing their MP half the time. This change should warrant a decrease in uptime from 30s to 20s at most, possibly even 10s.

Everything else is nice. Very high effort post, nice edits on the images.
 

Patchouli

Member
Jul 8, 2021
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Thanks for the insight @domranmersum!

For Recovery Aura in specific, I had a small discussion with a couple of our community members about its mechanics, and we thought about an idea where it perhaps maintains you and your party's MP so that it doesn't change... like providing Infinity to everyone without the magic and stance boost. It would be short lived, but it'd be similar to how Dark Knights can make their health stay at an exact percentage for a small duration (forgot the skill name haha). It's a new idea and I haven't thought about it much, but I think it's fun and helpful to talk about ideas and see what's cool and what's not.

Do you have any fun, unique ideas for Recovery Aura that you can think of? As of now, it's arguably useless so I don't know what the best solution to make it viable is.
 
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August

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Jul 16, 2021
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Evan was implemented for the sole purpose of being an all-rounder mage class that doesn't overshadow other mages, but I believe that's exactly the problem here. Evan dabbles in everything but is good at nothing. Bishop beats Evan at single target, and the party perks is quite underwhelming compared to Bishop's utility. It's funny how Evan mirriors Bishop in various ways since both classes offer an abnormal amount of utility. Evan can cleave as well, but it pales in significance compared to other cleave heavy mages. It can probably use some more tweaks here and there since we have a foundation with it's various skills.

The following below is my two cents:

Illusion:

I suggest giving Illusion another damage increase of 10%, from 100% to 110% and switch Illusion - Reinforce Narin skill from LVL 240 to 225, and Infernal Blaze from LVL 225 to 240. This would give Evan the single target leverage at lower levels.

Dark Fog:

I recommend reducing the backswing or cast delay even further. This skill has potential to be weaved every 7 seconds for additional damage.

Blessing of the Onyx:

Despite the longer up time for the skill, the magic attack increase is quite low for what it provides. Evan using the skill along with Subani is quite an expensive endeavor. Therefore, I suggest increasing the attack from 80 to something like 120-140, which would still be weaker than Mage Infinity, Cheese, and Subani.

Magic Shield:

How does this skill work? Does it stack with existing damage reduction skills like Achilles, High Defense, and Combo Barrier? Does it prevent players from dying to 1/1 mechanics? This doesn't seem like a required skill to cast, but it does have the same duration and cool down as Holy Shield though...

Recovery Aura:

This seems like a very strange skill to utilize. Does the effects work when you cast it during pot lock or 1/1? If not, manually potting for MP seems much easier than casting this skill. This skill can probably take example from Dark Knight's Berserker Mode where it can continuously increase Evan and other nearby party members MP from 80% to 100%, while the caster is still entitled to Dragon Fury despite surpassing the MP threshold.

The duration can be tweaked from the current 1 minute cool down to 2 minutes, or increase the duration from 30 seconds to 1 minute and increase the cool down from 1 minute to 3 minutes.
 
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beech2

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Jul 19, 2021
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Might I add that soul stone; if it's gonna function like a wheel but seen as a utility of a revive, it needs to

1)Persist after d/c so we can relog to reposition like free wheels

2)reworked to be an instant revive since it has to be pre casted with a 5mins down time anyway
 
Dec 23, 2023
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Soulstone feels kind of useless in NCHT right now since I almost always crash/dc before I get to use the full duration.
On that note, for the love of god please let MG persist after crash/dc.
 
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Patchouli

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Jul 8, 2021
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Hey @August! I definitely agree with your first paragraph; I'm rather weak in comparison to what I can offer, and I feel as though an all-rounder class should still feel strong despite not being the best at any given feat. Thank you for sharing the suggestions as well!

@beech2 and @dogshitpoopooshitstain, I mainly agree with both of you! Having Soul Stone persist after DC sounds like a must in my opinion. An instant revive is kind of scary, though, since I feel like having the option to choose to use it would make the skill more desirable to be used. Being revived instantly could cause some problems like being revived against your will if an Evan decides to put it on you randomly when you didn't want it, or it could cause two deaths in a row since most people might not even be paying attention when they die. I also think having the option to be resurrected by a Bishop is good as well.
 

beech2

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Jul 19, 2021
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Hey @August! I definitely agree with your first paragraph; I'm rather weak in comparison to what I can offer, and I feel as though an all-rounder class should still feel strong despite not being the best at any given feat. Thank you for sharing the suggestions as well!

@beech2 and @dogshitpoopooshitstain, I mainly agree with both of you! Having Soul Stone persist after DC sounds like a must in my opinion. An instant revive is kind of scary, though, since I feel like having the option to choose to use it would make the skill more desirable to be used. Being revived instantly could cause some problems like being revived against your will if an Evan decides to put it on you randomly when you didn't want it, or it could cause two deaths in a row since most people might not even be paying attention when they die. I also think having the option to be resurrected by a Bishop is good as well.

The idea of instant revive was just to differentiate revive and soul stone.

Not only will it introduce an element of strategy (when to cast) but also "balances" it due to being unable to control when revives proccs. Some animation to indicate the buff being used would be helpful too. Tbh, if you die back to back from full HP, it should cost the party a ress or wheel anyways. Soul stone should not use up wheel/death counter.

But as long as the buffs retain (like revive) the skill will actually prove useful especially for cases with body touch deaths.

Frankly i will be happy if it retains after d/C

Btw as far as I know just have the 2 person who needs the security of the buff stay in range and the others away. It's a guaranteed cast on those 2. Or creating parties inside expd should work. Although not sure how practical it is. Right clicking to remove buff should work too.

Frankly i will be happy if it retains after d/C.
 

Ziwei

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Game Master
WZ Editor
Feb 2, 2022
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Suggest reduce the backswing of Recovery Aura and Magic Shield. Its clunkiness is what's stopping me from casting as much too..

Also I can't remember if Blessing retains after DC. I hope it does.