Reduce or remove 6-man minimum entry requirement for PB

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Kousei

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Oct 9, 2021
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While this sounds really good for players that can do it(including myself) it will increase the gap extremely between old players and new players. + Old players wouldnt wanna do pb with randoms. Plus there wont be any 8/7/6/5man pb anymore.
 

Sabrina

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May 12, 2021
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While this sounds really good for players that can do it(including myself) it will increase the gap extremely between old players and new players. + Old players wouldnt wanna do pb with randoms. Plus there wont be any 8/7/6/5man pb anymore.
You cannot just get rid of 5/6/7/8 man pink bean regardless of the entry requirement, there's still a damage requirement that exists to be able to reduce the number of people that are in a run.
 
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Conus

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Jul 22, 2021
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I haven't done PB yet, but I don't see the problem. If they are strong enough they should be able to enter with fewer people. Maybe an incentive should be added to give a benefit for 6-man teams though (doesn't have to be massive) so 4man teams are not clearly the best option.
 
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Blink

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Jun 24, 2021
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Solution is to kick people out of the PB room after completion.

4 man PBS are a problem, whether they're artificial or not.
I Disagree. Why should you be forced to run with more people when you don't need more people? Most boss runs don't require you to have at least 1 full party to go in, why should PB be the exception? I think it's fair to reward players for being strong because after all what's the point of getting stronger if you aren't rewarded for it? You should also keep in mind that what's being argued here is that needing sign mules is annoying, people are already running 4 mans and needing to get mules to go in hasn't stopped any group from doing so. You also need to keep in mind that people who run 4 man PBs don't run with "randoms" anyway and they wouldn't partake in server runs. This shouldn't be a problem.
 

Hacker

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Jun 25, 2021
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I personally prefer the way it is now. If u wan to run a 4-5man pb, u or the team put in the effort for mule(s) ,it just a few days of work getting to max hpscroll & preq is easy. For daily boss, to maximise holy symbal 4man is good so theres no point running for below 4man not worth the time & u don get more exp from it.
 
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Bienfu

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Aug 4, 2021
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I Disagree. Why should you be forced to run with more people when you don't need more people? Most boss runs don't require you to have at least 1 full party to go in, why should PB be the exception? I think it's fair to reward players for being strong because after all what's the point of getting stronger if you aren't rewarded for it? You should also keep in mind that what's being argued here is that needing sign mules is annoying, people are already running 4 mans and needing to get mules to go in hasn't stopped any group from doing so. You also need to keep in mind that people who run 4 man PBs don't run with "randoms" anyway and they wouldn't partake in server runs. This shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, it's called health of the server/economy.

Main reason why the 1 run per week limit was instituted in the first place.

Is catering to the sweats worth plummeting the value of items? The sweats have an abnormally sized thumb on the scale when it comes to influencing the economy for everyone and disrupts the balance of fun/difficulty for casual players, which this server is meant for.

As I said, the solution would be to go the opposite direction, and simply ensure that you can not have PB placeholder mules by just kicking them out after signing up for expedition and leaving.
 
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ToastyBun

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May 7, 2021
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Yeah, it's called health of the server/economy.

Main reason why the 1 run per week limit was instituted in the first place.

Is catering to the sweats worth plummeting the value of items? The sweats have an abnormally sized thumb on the scale when it comes to influencing the economy for everyone and disrupts the balance of fun/difficulty for casual players, which this server is meant for.

As I said, the solution would be to go the opposite direction, and simply ensure that you can not have PB placeholder mules by just kicking them out after signing up for expedition and leaving.
Not addressing if it's healthy or not to remove the mule requirement. I will say though that this server absolutely does not cater to casual players specifically. It's for everyone, whether you're sweaty or casual. Your posts are somewhat greedy in that regard as well from a middle stand-point. For new players, cheap RoTs are absolutely the best thing since it means you can get started on your endgame equipment much faster. Meanwhile, it hurts you in the middle since you rely on it heavily for income but the value has dropped and for sweaty players, they are trying to run smaller groups because they can and increases profitability since RoTs are dropping in value.

From experience, before Empress was released, I literally created a new character as soon as my current character reached the capacity to run in 6 man PBs. Not purely for profit, but because there was literally no point in becoming stronger to me when I could essentially do anything I already wanted to. So what's the middle point of being able to easily do 6 man PB, but not Empress? I wouldn't expect everyone to make new characters to farm more RoTs to make more profit until they're strong enough to Empress. So wouldn't the alternative option be to try and run smaller groups of PB to get better loot? Now you're gated again from that because you either don't have friends who quit and gave you their PB ready account to mule, or another character you made yourself to be able to do so.
 

Blink

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Jun 24, 2021
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Yeah, it's called health of the server/economy.

Main reason why the 1 run per week limit was instituted in the first place.

Is catering to the sweats worth plummeting the value of items? The sweats have an abnormally sized thumb on the scale when it comes to influencing the economy for everyone and disrupts the balance of fun/difficulty for casual players, which this server is meant for.

As I said, the solution would be to go the opposite direction, and simply ensure that you can not have PB placeholder mules by just kicking them out after signing up for expedition and leaving.
You're not really reading what i'n saying. I'm saying that the players already run 4 mans and the only thing this does is making it less annoying. I know a lot of people who can run 4 mans and ive never heard of someone who decided not to run because of mules. Most of us use stripped accounts from friends that quit so it's not characters we would run on, otherwise we'd run instead of signing. The weekly limit is something else. If PB was a daily boss then ofc RoTs would be worthless. If anything i feel like having pb sign mules widens the gap since most newer players by that time they get there won't neccesarily have friends quitting and giving them accounts. I genuinely don't think this would change prices of RoTs. Eitherway, we will keep doing it, if it gives you peace that it's just annoying then so be it.
 
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Study

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The downside I see to this is... though people are still running 4 or 5 man pb with a mule, now that mule will be able to run pb as well since it will no longer be needed to mule people in.
Usually the mules are stripped of gear… if they had gear they’d be running already instead of remaining as mules
 
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iSpiltCurry

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Jul 3, 2021
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Would lowering the entry requirement from 6>4 results in more people attempting 3man runs with 1 sign up mules in the future? This might just happen in the near future with how many end-game players focusing on min-maxing. This would result in ROT prices dropping at an exponentially faster rates; although this would technically be kinda good since newer players could start min-maxing their weapons & gloves even earlier. Kinda 50-50 on this but if more squads are running smaller parties, wouldn't that means there's also more coins + pandora boxes being pumped into the server, further upsetting those players whom advocated for a nerf in inkwell coins from expeditions.
 
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Study

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Would lowering the entry requirement from 6>4 results in more people attempting 3man runs with 1 sign up mules in the future? This might just happen in the near future with how many end-game players focusing on min-maxing. This would result in ROT prices dropping at an exponentially faster rates; although this would technically be kinda good since newer players could start min-maxing their weapons & gloves even earlier. Kinda 50-50 on this but if more squads are running smaller parties, wouldn't that means there's also more coins + pandora boxes being pumped into the server, further upsetting those players whom advocated for a nerf in inkwell coins from expeditions.
Again, those who are capable of running in smaller parties, are ALREADY running in smaller parties with mules.

It’s just an inconvenience at the moment, but if the mechanic makes people believe that it gatekeeps sweaties running in small parties, then just leave it as it is.
 
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Krono

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May 26, 2021
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Usually the mules are stripped of gear… if they had gear they’d be running already instead of remaining as mules
or a mage meso farmer, all you need to get into pb is tot prequest, and minimum level, you can make a pb mule in under a week. so yeah 6man restriction is only an inconvenience
 

Blink

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Jun 24, 2021
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Would lowering the entry requirement from 6>4 results in more people attempting 3man runs with 1 sign up mules in the future? This might just happen in the near future with how many end-game players focusing on min-maxing. This would result in ROT prices dropping at an exponentially faster rates; although this would technically be kinda good since newer players could start min-maxing their weapons & gloves even earlier. Kinda 50-50 on this but if more squads are running smaller parties, wouldn't that means there's also more coins + pandora boxes being pumped into the server, further upsetting those players whom advocated for a nerf in inkwell coins from expeditions.
If people wanted to run 3 mans trust me they'd still do it with the current restriction. Leaving that aside doing 3 man PB is absurdly hard. You need to do roughly 2.5 per person the set up would probably be 2 nls, 1 SE. a 250 very strong NL can definitely dish out 2.5 but MMs and WAs and BMs would have a very hard time, so the nls would realistically have to do 2.8 or something along the lines which is very hard. There's also no pin so it's more awkw to do the body cleanly. There's maybe 6 players in the server who could even considering attempting that as of now. It'll take an absurd amount of time for the server to progress to this being the norm and dare i say by the time this happens PB items might not even be best in slot. All i'm saying is if you can run 3 man PBs kudos to you, you're just a beast and deserve to be rewarded for this. A very few groups doing this doesn't change an entire economy.
 
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iSpiltCurry

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Jul 3, 2021
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Again, those who are capable of running in smaller parties, are ALREADY running in smaller parties with mules.

It’s just an inconvenience at the moment, but if the mechanic makes people believe that it gatekeeps sweaties running in small parties, then just leave it as it is.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of parties that are capable of running 4~5man pb, one of the major reasons that's stopping them from doing so is having to have a sign-up mule. Pb attackers itself doesn't take too much resources to gear up, lets be honest. Having this mechanic to "gatekeep" players would probably force those running in smaller parties to work extra hard to be able to do those runs. You do have to put in extra amount of effort to train a mule from scratch and do TOT questline just so it could be parked at PB's entrance as a sign-up mule. Kudos to those running 4~5man, you all deserve to do so. But I personally don't think the game should be made easier for end-game players to do clear the contents at a simplified pace. Afterall, the fact that you could have a sign-up mule that doesn't need to Green in PB is probably a good enough blessing in disguise. If the sign-up mule had to enter the PB expedition, and had to green in order for the run to be considered a "clear", then your suggestions for removing this mechanic would carry more weight.

If people wanted to run 3 mans trust me they'd still do it with the current restriction. Leaving that aside doing 3 man PB is absurdly hard. You need to do roughly 2.5 per person the set up would probably be 2 nls, 1 SE. a 250 very strong NL can definitely dish out 2.5 but MMs and WAs and BMs would have a very hard time, so the nls would realistically have to do 2.8 or something along the lines which is very hard. There's also no pin so it's more awkw to do the body cleanly. There's maybe 6 players in the server who could even considering attempting that as of now. It'll take an absurd amount of time for the server to progress to this being the norm and dare i say by the time this happens PB items might not even be best in slot. All i'm saying is if you can run 3 man PBs kudos to you, you're just a beast and deserve to be rewarded for this. A very few groups doing this doesn't change an entire economy.
Back when PB was first cleared, who would have thought 5man pb runs would even be attempted? I didn't, and I'm pretty sure you didn't as well. Now we're all here wondering whether 3man pb runs is even possible? It would be, not now, but definitely in a couple of months time when those sweaties finished min~maxing; yeap including crafting MTK. I remembered self-proclaimed no.1 Drk database flaunting over his PB clear in the first few weeks, and within a month, pb expedition size went from 12man>6man. Server progression is inevitable, most players would get stronger. Running 3man pb is a tremendous achievement and kudos to those who might be able to do it. But splitting the loots among 3man is already a reward by itself.
 

Study

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I'm pretty sure there are a lot of parties that are capable of running 4~5man pb, one of the major reasons that's stopping them from doing so is having to have a sign-up mule. Pb attackers itself doesn't take too much resources to gear up, lets be honest. Having this mechanic to "gatekeep" players would probably force those running in smaller parties to work extra hard to be able to do those runs.
Yes there are a lot of parties capable.
And yes PB mules are easy to make.
And thus, yes they are already running 4- and 5-mans as we speak. Nothing is stopping them.

I just don't think this is the way a class should be played. If I am training up a character and running server CHT on it 5 times then spending 2hours doing ToT, just so I can permanently leave the character in a map and not play it, then I think it's a silly / artificial mechanic by the server and should be adjusted.

But like I said above, if the mechanic makes people believe that it gatekeeps sweaties running in small parties, then just leave it as it is.
 

Tawn

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May 24, 2021
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Singapore
12 September 2021 said:
Fixed Cygnus Empress, Pink Bean expedition not going into cooldown if the player did not deal any damage and left the expedition.
I feel that the bug fix not functioning as intended is the reason why player wanted the pb minimum number of player requirement to be removed. Now can once again “mule” for the extra number of player without sacrificing the run count of “mules”. I don’t really care if it gets removed or not, pb is harder to recruit members now compared to before. A lot of players quitted game or banned. New player can hardly reach the range for 4-6man pb.
 

Blink

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Jun 24, 2021
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I'm pretty sure there are a lot of parties that are capable of running 4~5man pb, one of the major reasons that's stopping them from doing so is having to have a sign-up mule. Pb attackers itself doesn't take too much resources to gear up, lets be honest. Having this mechanic to "gatekeep" players would probably force those running in smaller parties to work extra hard to be able to do those runs. You do have to put in extra amount of effort to train a mule from scratch and do TOT questline just so it could be parked at PB's entrance as a sign-up mule. Kudos to those running 4~5man, you all deserve to do so. But I personally don't think the game should be made easier for end-game players to do clear the contents at a simplified pace. Afterall, the fact that you could have a sign-up mule that doesn't need to Green in PB is probably a good enough blessing in disguise. If the sign-up mule had to enter the PB expedition, and had to green in order for the run to be considered a "clear", then your suggestions for removing this mechanic would carry more weight.



Back when PB was first cleared, who would have thought 5man pb runs would even be attempted? I didn't, and I'm pretty sure you didn't as well. Now we're all here wondering whether 3man pb runs is even possible? It would be, not now, but definitely in a couple of months time when those sweaties finished min~maxing; yeap including crafting MTK. I remembered self-proclaimed no.1 Drk database flaunting over his PB clear in the first few weeks, and within a month, pb expedition size went from 12man>6man. Server progression is inevitable, most players would get stronger. Running 3man pb is a tremendous achievement and kudos to those who might be able to do it. But splitting the loots among 3man is already a reward by itself.
You could be right about more people being interested to run if the restriction is removed but from my experience it hasn't stopped anyone i know from attempting it. I know for a fact that having annoying mechanics is not a healthy way of keeping an item's price stable. RoTs go down because people need it less and less as time goes on. There's less of an influx in newer players and the average player slowly progresses to having perfected timeless weapons. This is a natural thing. I don't think this means we should rely on this restriction as a way to slow down progression and sustain RoT prices. There's an a lot of ways to keep rot prices relevant. Using Oz as example since it's content available to most players Dream could opt in adding a craftable item that needs RoTs as part of the materials. In contrast to empress, Oz is content available to all the players and not the top 5% (hence why rots being needed for emp items didn't really cause a price change). Anyway my point is regardless of it affecting or not rot prices this doesn't seem like the proper approach to force value on an item. Players should be allowed the freedom of doing bosses with as little players as needed to maximize their profit. That's the whole point of progression based games. Why get stronger past clearing empress? You'll probably run 16 mans anyway. There's already barely any content for 250s i say leave some room for progression to matter and find other way to sustain item prices.
 
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Seriously

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May 26, 2021
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If people are able to 4-5 man pb I don’t see why they need to be restricted. If you can do it, good on ya! Just like every other expedition, if you can do 4-5man dailies, no ones stopping you xd
 
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