Bowmasters, why they are all gone

Summer

Member
May 25, 2021
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Honestly, are you sure the class is not strong enough or you're just too weak. I don't wanna be the person who sounds like an ass. But from the BM's I've ran with they do good damage in both PB and Empress.

Firstly, its honestly just a gear diff, you can't expect to do high damage if you have bad gear. That's like saying you want to ace an exam but didn't spend enough effort preparing for it.

Secondly, if you chose to play BM you know what you got yourself into you're a SINGLE TARGET DPS and that's that, so why the comparison between CLEAVE DPS and SINGLE TARGET DPS are you confused or something?

So if you really want to continue playing BM, you should spend more time improving your gear to match the current top few BMs which deal good damage in PB & Empress instead of asking for ridiculous buffs
 

ToastyBun

Member
May 7, 2021
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lol "no one uses avenger so don't give BM a cleave buff" what kind of logic is that? that has nothing to do with the point i'm trying to make. bm doesn't use cleave in bossing situations either. that doesn't mean that it's not useful to have.
You've gone from
"NL Avenger got buffed so buff arrow rain" to "Avenger still sucks so Arrow rain shouldn't get a buff?" Lmao.

As for comparisons, there's a reason BM train with Arrow Rain over Arrow Bomb, and even NW who train witb Vampire over Avenger. The advantage of a ranged class not needing to worry about punch/whack animation makes them great skills to use already.

I don't think a single BM player in pre-bb ever thought Arrow Rain was a bad skill. It fills its role very well
 
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Kousei

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Oct 9, 2021
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I honestly dont get where you are coming from. Since when is BM's dps in PB sucks? In all single target bosses including PB, BM excel better than Marksman/WA or even NLs
Empress have a lot of parts to cleave which result in wa/mm dealing more dmg. Again why are you comparing cleave damage vs Single target?? its ridiculous
Decent BM can do 1.6-1.8b in empress which is already super good for Single Target dps. If u wish to see more damage on cleave boss then just play a job that cleaves super well....
Are you really using PB ( the boss where you afk and attack statues for 70% of the time) + implying someone has to get GOD gear to be able to actually do some DPS with BM? while other classes get away being less geared and doing more?
 
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Ofir

Member
Sep 30, 2021
175
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Honestly, are you sure the class is not strong enough or you're just too weak. I don't wanna be the person who sounds like an ass. But from the BM's I've ran with they do good damage in both PB and Empress.

Firstly, its honestly just a gear diff, you can't expect to do high damage if you have bad gear. That's like saying you want to ace an exam but didn't spend enough effort preparing for it.

Secondly, if you chose to play BM you know what you got yourself into you're a SINGLE TARGET DPS and that's that, so why the comparison between CLEAVE DPS and SINGLE TARGET DPS are you confused or something?

So if you really want to continue playing BM, you should spend more time improving your gear to match the current top few BMs which deal good damage in PB & Empress instead of asking for ridiculous buffs
Not exactly that. I dont mean to say I am playing a class great at cleaveing. I'm aware of that, long before you tell me, and yeah, I think I dont need to be told what I already know / aware of.
I simply stated my thoughts regarding the recent posts in this thread. I dont know if I've read wrong or not, but most of it is about how Bowmasters arent as good as compared to other types of Bowman or possibly any other class generally, even non-Bowman ones. Many posts seemed to just be about complaining about this mostly, the thread's title "why they are gone" doesnt really tell me what the point is.
I disagree with the thread's title because they're not really "gone". They're just less seen around, but they still exist. I have seen a lot of BM's, not everywhere, but still here and there, sometimes, and I never thought in my mind, not even for one moment, they are "disappearing". Hell no.
With this being said, you dont need to be rude about whenever you have read something I said which you disagreed with. But if you choose to be, thats your problem. I just dont like seeing it, but I'm mature enough to not be offended. But nice try anyways.
 

Archer

Member
Jul 21, 2021
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37
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I honestly dont get where you are coming from. Since when is BM's dps in PB sucks? In all single target bosses including PB, BM excel better than Marksman/WA or even NLs
Empress have a lot of parts to cleave which result in wa/mm dealing more dmg. Again why are you comparing cleave damage vs Single target?? its ridiculous
Decent BM can do 1.6-1.8b in empress which is already super good for Single Target dps. If u wish to see more damage on cleave boss then just play a job that cleaves super well....
Cool, let's compare the damage from the damage range chart of the top 5 BMs vs MM.

Average top 5 MM dps = 68,825,083.2
Average top 5 BM dps = 68,787,722.4
edit: this is using the top 5 dmg from 11/4, but average WA dps is 73,969,304.2 -> correct me if I'm wrong, but the dojo dummy is single target and is not holy weak right?

MM and BM are pretty even in single target scenarios? And MM will be cleaving in Empress? Wouldn't it be better to just take a MM over a BM in empress, since they are more versatile (can do single or cleave in Empress and do well, where BMs must single target). Also reiterating a point I brought up earlier, snipe not being affected by damage reduction would make this difference favor MM more in single target in Empress too.

I'm not looking for a class that does more damage cleaving, I'm looking to have the class I want to play be relevant and part of the meta, not something that is so easily replaced by a superior class.
 
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Archer

Member
Jul 21, 2021
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Honestly, are you sure the class is not strong enough or you're just too weak. I don't wanna be the person who sounds like an ass. But from the BM's I've ran with they do good damage in both PB and Empress.

Firstly, its honestly just a gear diff, you can't expect to do high damage if you have bad gear. That's like saying you want to ace an exam but didn't spend enough effort preparing for it.

Secondly, if you chose to play BM you know what you got yourself into you're a SINGLE TARGET DPS and that's that, so why the comparison between CLEAVE DPS and SINGLE TARGET DPS are you confused or something?

So if you really want to continue playing BM, you should spend more time improving your gear to match the current top few BMs which deal good damage in PB & Empress instead of asking for ridiculous buffs
I'm sorry, I think you may have missed the message I was trying to convey with the original message.

Here's an example of something that happened before I quit: I ran a test with some friends, a lvl 22x BM, a lvl 20x WA, a lvl 21x MM.

We ran CZAK together without SI. We were in a party together and only had the buffs we brought (using no attack pots).
I was the most geared of the three of us at the time.
The results:
after arms -> I trailed both of my friends by 10m damage.
After all 3 bodies -> I caught up to my friends DPS a bit, but still trailed by about 3-4m damage to each respectively.

This is WITHOUT SI, and I was using concentrate off of CD (to be honest, I was only noticeably catching up in DPS because of the +40 watk in concentrate). In a 15min run, where half of it was arms and half of it was bodies (good mix between cleave vs single target), where my two friends were handicapped without SI AND I was the most geared, I fail to see how BMs stand on equal footing with the other 2 archers.
 
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Bowmaster8

Member
Aug 15, 2021
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I honestly dont get where you are coming from. Since when is BM's dps in PB sucks? In all single target bosses including PB, BM excel better than Marksman/WA or even NLs
Empress have a lot of parts to cleave which result in wa/mm dealing more dmg. Again why are you comparing cleave damage vs Single target?? its ridiculous
Decent BM can do 1.6-1.8b in empress which is already super good for Single Target dps. If u wish to see more damage on cleave boss then just play a job that cleaves super well....
Idk where you're from too. BM is better than MM/WA and even NL in PB? Are you serious? At a same range?? Wow. So you must be a great BM that I've never seen.
And I don't think PB and EMP are total cleaver bosses.I also don't agree with you that if I wanna see more dmg on cleave boss just play a cleaver job, so who will play single target like BM? .And you must understand that if BM is good at all as you said above, all BMs didn't create many threads to look for a better way for BMs.
And have you seen a 20k clean BM just can have a total damage like a WA 17k and a NL 12k in PB? I guess you don't know anything about BM.
Finally, I think DreaM did very well at balancing BM among bowman classes.
 
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Bowmaster8

Member
Aug 15, 2021
25
12
3
Are you really using PB ( the boss where you afk and attack statues for 70% of the time) + implying someone has to get GOD gear to be able to actually do some DPS with BM? while other classes get away being less geared and doing more?
Yes, I think they don't know about clean range or what gears of BMs who they did bosses each other must have.
We're saying that we must have better gears to have a same dmg like the rest :)
Even they don't play BM as main :)
RIP.
 

Ofir

Member
Sep 30, 2021
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Other than the controversial issue about buffing a BM, I think the more important thing to consider about BM compared to WA, and MM, is the main attack Hurricane skill.
You see... if you compare that to the other Bowman classes, Marksman get a stronger Strafe, and Snipe, which is strong of course. But, its only one shot and it has a short cooldown.
Wind Archers have a great mobbing skill as we already know, and are good at single target DPS too.
But, if you think about BM compared to the others, you might realize something you havent paid enough attention to.
BM is the only Bowman class out of them all who has a hold button, spam attack skill that you can fire continuously. Combine that with the fact you can now move with it and jump with it, you have a big advantage over MM and WA who doesnt have this luxury.
Why do I call it luxury? Because thats what it is, fellas. Do you know how fun that can be? It also allows you to move around smoothly while attacking, something you couldnt do if there was no ability to move while using Hurricane.
Even if we would say, this change didnt exist and Hurricane can only be used while standing(no moving), you're still at an advantage by having a hold button attack skill which you can spam freely.
Compare Hurricane to Snipe for example? Snipe is a great skill of course, but you cant spam it. Sometimes, you can find that dull or boring as compared to the Hurricane. And for me thats exactly the case. And furthermore, you are stuck with a 3rd job attack skill Strafe even after 4th job, which kinda feels like a disadvantage.
Wind Archers get new attacks after 4th, but they also dont have the luxury BMs have with Hurricane, as I mentioned. Sure they have Hurricane too, but you dont use it after you get your new attacks, its a temporary skill.
So yeah, this is probably part of the reason why I'm very happy about BMs as they are right now. I know the other Bowman options arent as fun as others might say, and, I can see that in the gameplay you would have with the attack skills you would have with each other bowman class available, compared to BMs.
Hurricane is really a hurricane. You can feel the power.
 

Shane

Member
Jun 11, 2021
31
31
18
Honestly, are you sure the class is not strong enough or you're just too weak. I don't wanna be the person who sounds like an ass. But from the BM's I've ran with they do good damage in both PB and Empress.

Firstly, its honestly just a gear diff, you can't expect to do high damage if you have bad gear. That's like saying you want to ace an exam but didn't spend enough effort preparing for it.

Secondly, if you chose to play BM you know what you got yourself into you're a SINGLE TARGET DPS and that's that, so why the comparison between CLEAVE DPS and SINGLE TARGET DPS are you confused or something?

So if you really want to continue playing BM, you should spend more time improving your gear to match the current top few BMs which deal good damage in PB & Empress instead of asking for ridiculous buffs
You mean FlyingArrow or CityOfBM?
 
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Ofir

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Sep 30, 2021
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Hey guys,
Good news, I'm close to becoming a Bowmaster myself. Level 115 now.
I'm glad to join the Bowmasters family, it'd be nice to have some other Bowmaster friends and get to know them after I become a Bowmaster soon.
You bet your shoes I'm excited, fellas. Lets blow the roof off soon. 5 to go.
Screenshot:

4.png
 
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Ofir

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Sep 30, 2021
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Israel
hi all , I still love playing BM in this server
Me too man, me too. I dont see any good reason to stop loving it.

Love to see BMs awken :)

I think BMs is okay since the last buff.
Let's enjoy now...

But who said Shane quitted? :eek::eek::eek:
Yeah, the buff was great. A lot more freedom, freedom of movement.

Bowmaster needs shadow partner to makeup for no cleave and also torturing grinding pre 130
Torturing grinding? Nah, I'm only a little weak right now because I still dont have my SE maxed out. I'm, only 121. But, I dont feel like its a torture, just kinda weak during the early levels, but I'll get over it.
Shadow Partner... Damn, they would probably never give that to a Bowmaster, unfortunately.

Gg who said I quitted 😂
People say "I quit" and they dont always mean it.
 

Archer

Member
Jul 21, 2021
12
37
13
Newly discovered bowmaster strat in empress has made Bowmasters really good there. This one discovery (which was made possible because of moving hurricane) single handedly has made Bowmasters viable in endgame (in my opinion)
 

Ofir

Member
Sep 30, 2021
175
0
18
Israel
Hey guys, been a while. I'm level 150 now! Amazing, right? I can feel how fun it can be to be a Bowmaster, and I'm proud of being one, to prove this class is not dead at all.
This thread's title is a big shame. Really, "Bowmasters, why they are all gone" is a terrible thread title, because this class is really not gone.
 
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