Bowmaster's Suggestion

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waiting

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Counter-point to this overwhelmingly popular opinion: Bowmaster is a top class in pretty much every server between v63 and v83. This is the first server I've ever played on where MM had a chance to shine. In fact BM and MM essentially are swapped in this server. Usually MM is essentially useless and BM is one of the most popular classes. In legends for example you neverrrr see a party without BM at the helm. Its played out. I genuinely love that for once BM is taking a back seat to the other archers. Its overdue tbh. I think there's just a bunch of BM mains here that can't stand not being number 1 for once.

Not every class can be top damage... by definition. Focus on buffing classes that really need it like Pally.

I'm ready for your dislikes.
The problem is that on release, BM was a really good class overall and I'm sure many BM players made one taking this into consideration. But since then many classes (shad WA TB NW and most recently bishop to name some, and even some that really shouldn't have been buffed beyond their release state like NL and bucc) have received gigantic buffs aimed at making them closer in strength to the overpowered release drk and corsair. BM has been neglected enough that it's been left behind (just like pally) and is probably one of the worst classes right now. If you are/were a BM player and you see everything else getting gigabuffed you'd also want some of that just so your class can become decent again.

Furthermore if BM isn't allowed to be a top class now given its status in other servers, then why is NL entitled to that same position here? Over the past couple of months, the precedent has been established that any class could be randomly buffed to match the power level of the top classes. Why should such an arbitrary reason now be valid to prevent BM receiving that same treatment?
 

Bowmaster8

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Your post is literally saying "Bowmaster deserves to be the best archer because I like it". If anything this proves my point. I have no problem with Wind Archer's position in the meta. The only people who complain about them are BM mains. They're not even top 5 DPS on this server but because they're better than BM you have posts everyday about how they a need a nerf.

Maybe try a new class? Or just accept that BM is a middle-of-the-pack dps in this server and play them anyway?
What do you mean "a middle of the pack DPS"? Are you sure? BM is at the bottom, not mid.
What are you saying if even you're not a BM, lol?
Why ppl got WA/MM mains or other classes mains can get/complain about their buffs except BM?
I like to play BM main. Why don't I deserve to get a buff? lol.
I don't wanna play other classes. Who plays a main and wanna be weak?
You
""The only people who complain about them are BM mains" -->ye, only BM mains. Okay. You can see many BM mains here dude.
 
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kwonzilla

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im not even mad about dps. its more about overall balancing that is upsetting. like others have said, every other class that people complained about, got HEAVILY buffed, but bowmaster was left out. also, i agree with the above posts that say how, at the beginning of the server, bowmaster's portfolio was an attractive attribute for players to pick. but now that every other class besides bowmaster has gotten literally everything they wanted, in terms of single target and aoe, it is really frustrating to see how bowmaster has basically nothing that puts them up against even the other archers.
 

Sabrina

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What do you mean "a middle of the pack DPS"? Are you sure? BM is at the bottom, not mid.
What are you saying if even you're not a BM, lol?
Why ppl got WA/MM mains or other classes mains can get/complain about their buffs except BM?
I like to play BM main. Why don't I deserve to get a buff? lol.
I don't wanna play other classes. Who plays a main and wanna be weak?
You
""The only people who complain about them are BM mains" -->ye, only BM mains. Okay. You can see many BM mains here dude.
You know, according to the most recent DPM chart that was released, bowmaster are stronger than Wind Archer. They're stronger than most stuff when funded. And they don't need SI, which makes them fit into places easier because SI isn't exactly the easiest thing to find sometimes. In fact, Bowmaster is better than 90% of classes self buffed and classes like NL and NW are only good when they have SE, while Marksman and WA fall off massively without SI. Bowmaster is consistent.

edit: Not saying they couldn't use some help, because they certainly shouldn't be weaker than marksman, but I think yall are thinking they're way weaker than they really are. They're fairly niche, but they have a place, even as they are.
 

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kwonzilla

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You know, according to the most recent DPM chart that was released, bowmaster are stronger than Wind Archer. They're stronger than most stuff when funded. And they don't need SI, which makes them fit into places easier because SI isn't exactly the easiest thing to find sometimes. In fact, Bowmaster is better than 90% of classes self buffed and classes like NL and NW are only good when they have SE, while Marksman and WA fall off massively without SI. Bowmaster is consistent.

edit: Not saying they couldn't use some help, because they certainly shouldn't be weaker than marksman, but I think yall are thinking they're way weaker than they really are. They're fairly niche, but they have a place, even as they are.
imo bowmaster could benefit from an aoe buff more than anything. the difference is dps is only marginal between the archers, but aoe qol is where bowmaster falls off heavily. especially in 3rd job. i think more people would play bowmaster if there was more of an easier life for them in 3rd job/early 4th job.

if you look at sniper vs ranger, sniper gets a 960% damage (strafe) non crit, single target skill that will pretty much 1-2 shot any mob unfunded around lv 80-100, at least. sure, ranger has a light buff to arrow rain at 200% vs its original 160%, but honestly it is only a marginal increase to damage, considering the low critical chance of early archers. if you switch arrow rain to 2 hits it is a much better trade off for ranger, no matter if it is miniscule in late game.

i can also mention that piercing arrow got a range buff, new animation, etc. bowmaster is still left with only marginal single target dps superiority, in perfect situations. shame.
 
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kwonzilla

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it would be interesting to see bow expert gain additional avoidability along with its mastery and weapon attack. it makes more sense for this from the original perspective of ranger being the faster but weaker archer.
 

Sabrina

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imo bowmaster could benefit from an aoe buff more than anything. the difference is dps is only marginal between the archers, but aoe qol is where bowmaster falls off heavily. especially in 3rd job. i think more people would play bowmaster if there was more of an easier life for them in 3rd job/early 4th job.

if you look at sniper vs ranger, sniper gets a 960% damage (strafe) non crit, single target skill that will pretty much 1-2 shot any mob unfunded around lv 80-100, at least. sure, ranger has a light buff to arrow rain at 200% vs its original 160%, but honestly it is only a marginal increase to damage, considering the low critical chance of early archers. if you switch arrow rain to 2 hits it is a much better trade off for ranger, no matter if it is miniscule in late game.

i can also mention that piercing arrow got a range buff, new animation, etc. bowmaster is still left with only marginal single target dps superiority, in perfect situations. shame.
Bowmaster isn't a cleaver.
 

Squiggles

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Are DPM charts made in a vacuum? Because I can't imagine a WA with 60% stance does less than a BM in a real world scenario. I also doubt BM does more than MM for the same reason; their damage isn't as impeded by kb or debuffs. I could be wrong, of course, as I've literally never seen an end game BM.
That being said, the lack of BM representation likely does allude to something. Maybe what BM really needs is some QoL?
 

Bowmaster8

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You know, according to the most recent DPM chart that was released, bowmaster are stronger than Wind Archer. They're stronger than most stuff when funded. And they don't need SI, which makes them fit into places easier because SI isn't exactly the easiest thing to find sometimes. In fact, Bowmaster is better than 90% of classes self buffed and classes like NL and NW are only good when they have SE, while Marksman and WA fall off massively without SI. Bowmaster is consistent.

edit: Not saying they couldn't use some help, because they certainly shouldn't be weaker than marksman, but I think yall are thinking they're way weaker than they really are. They're fairly niche, but they have a place, even as they are.
Ye, BM is good w his selfbuff. But when u're in a boss expedition w bosses? No stance will takes BM DPS gone while WA has > 60% stance lol. Don't depend on this chart to say that BM doesn't need a buff. When all classes get full buff in a party, BM will be weaker than MM/WA. You'll never know if you don't play it.
 
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kwonzilla

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Bowmaster isn't a cleaver.
im not even talking about bossing here lol. who would use arrow rain over hurricane? cmon now.

just because marksman got a PA buff you think it is acceptable to argue against any suggestion made to bowmaster regarding aoe buffs? please.
 
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Sabrina

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im not even talking about bossing here lol. who would use arrow rain over hurricane? cmon now.

just because marksman got a PA buff you think it is acceptable to argue against any suggestion made to bowmaster regarding aoe buffs? please.
Who cares about marksman? I'm "arguing against any suggestion made to bowmaster regarding aoe buffs" because Bowmaster is not a mobbing class. Neither are Night Lords but you don't see them making threads asking for avenger to be buffed so they can mob.

You're making suggestions for a class without even understanding the class's identity.

@Bowmaster8 if you bothered to read that whole comment you'd see I said that I'm not saying bowmaster doesn't need QoL improvements/help, just that they're not as weak as you all seem to think they are.

They need improvements to hurricane and in general, but AoE is not what they need. They are not a mobbing class.
 
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chicken

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Why did this thread even start going into cleaving buff? BM doesn't need cleave. We're just asking for better single target DPS. Stop using the DPM chart to compare DPS because that's only for ideal case. BM have less uptime because every hit restarts the animation for hurricane and force us to reposition. It's not like strafe/song of heaven.

I don't understand why people are so against BM getting better single target DPS among the 3 archers. The other 2 archers can do both single target and cleave. Just let us excel in single target instead of being literal SE mule.
 
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